It's all Plain to Sea

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

Frost-wall will be installed Wednesday...frame errected by Labor Day.

Insulation panels for the frost-wall laid out inside the perimeter of the greenhouse. Wednesday a 6 1/2 " x 30" trench will be cut in the silica sand and the panels installed two thick with a 1 1/2" space between them. This will be the footing/foundation for the greenhouse with the ground posts between the insulation panels.

Note the photo is taken from thr roof of the headhouse. The same insulation panels have been installed two thick in the roof and walls of the headhouse. The gap between panels has been filled with foam insulation.

oxenology · Joined: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 2

Your drawing is difficult for me to get the answers I have about your UACT. I am trying to understand how you laid out the 4" tubing and the air flow through your system. It is not completely clear from the photos either.

Near as I can figure, you have 3- 12" culverts used as plenum or manifolds. Your 4" laterals are looped. Can I assume you did not stack two manifolds on top of each other and both ends of the lateral go into the same manifold just on one side? Or do laterals connect to both sides of one manifold going in opposite directions?

It looks like from the drawing you have two manifolds back to back in the middle of the house with another at the other end of the house. Is that correct?

Are these manifolds connected or is each a separate system with its own fan?

In the photos all I can see are two risers (intake/exhaust) coming out of the ground. Is there more that can not be seen?

How does it flow? Where is the in he comes and out he goes?

Can you make a simple sketch in the plan view and a simple cross section to clear up some of your details?

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

The 40' long, 12" diameter manifolds are stacked. One is the inlet manifold and the other is the outlet manifold. Each manifold has 30 snap tee's on each side for a total of 60 snap tee's on each manifold. The 4" diameter pipe connect to the snap tee's and run in a loop on the same side from the upper manifold to lower manifold. Each of the three sets of manifolds has 30 32' long, 4" pipe on each side for a total of 60 pipe per set(about 5,760 feet in all). Each set of manifolds will have a FANTEK FKD 12xl in-line duct fan(1920 cfm @0.125" W.G.).

The 8" diameter risers you see in the photo are not part of the SHCS. The risers are from the drainage system which is installed beneath the SHCS. The drainage system will provide drainage of active springs as well as provide a system for collecting CO2 which is outgassing from the springs. An 8" in-line duct fan will be installed at one riser to provide the extraction mechanism.

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

South and east sides of frost wall installed. A trench was excavated with small backhoe. Two XPS panels were installed parallel, with a gap between them sufficient for the greenhouse ground posts. These XPS panels have 1/2" concrete on one side. The concrete side was placed against the walls of the trench. The trench as well as the gap was backfilled with sand.

The XPS panels will be trimmed along a chalk line to remove the uneven edges and a 2 x 6 base board will be installed inside and out. The greenhouse frame will then be errected.

The bottom edge of the XPS panel extends at least 30" below grade.

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

Finally have the greenhouse frame up!

Hex · Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 204

Hi Randy
All i can say is wow! Shocked

You`ve done a grand job there and i for one cant wait to see it all up and running. I don`t envy you the task of covering the frame though, fairly small polytunnel covers can hoist you 10-15ft in the air in a light breeze..yours will be a sheet of poly the size of a football field at least Very Happy

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

Hex, the largest 6 mil IR/AC sheet I can find is 50' wide. I did find clear 6 mil poly 56' wide. The outer sheet will be clear and the inner sheet will be IR/AC so the limiting size is the IR/AC. Two sheets of 50' x 98' will be managed together. There will also be end walls and one side wall. I will assemble 8-10 people to pull and attach the larger sheets.

Hex · Joined: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 204

Hi Randy
With a nice calm day i`m sure you`ll have it done in next to no time. I don`t envy the poor guy that has to unroll it along a couple of planks along the ridge of the greenhouse assuming thats how you`ll do it. Its looks to be a fair way off the ground.
The roll of poly for my pillows is a massive 37ft x 43ft (11.1 x 13m) you`ll probably get bigger offcuts than that Very Happy

mrhobbithhnet · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject:

Randy,

Once again, gorgeous pix! I wish I was there.

First, some advice wrt poly covers. As you've found, 50' plus is not an option for solid films. No worries, that issue has been thoroughly vetted by God's Phrozen Ones (our far northern brethren building humongous solar greenhouses)

As you know you cannot seam together films. But if you use woven fabrics of the same polymers, they sew up to any conceivable size just dandy. And the art and science of strength, transmissivity, costing and handling of these woven solutions has had decades of deep level work.

I've been in many a square acre sized single skin pressurized tomato houses in Alberta - it's definitely rocket science up there. You enter thru an air lock into 0.25" pressurized space that's holding up the film. Steel cables stretch across the space keeping cover in place and limited in its conformation. You can walk across the inflated roof like it was a spongy foot ball field. Incredible - 50' foot ceilings, vast interior vistas of tomato vines going off into the distant corners - and all inside a virtually bombproof structure. Impact and wind isn't much of problem - but the bean counters are always a bit nervous. The scale of them is a wee bit precariously perched on a very fine edge of profitability.

Anyway... the place to check out retail level custom sewn covers is Northern Greenhouses

Turn them onto the SHCS while on the line with them, let me know what their response is... we might find they've been into it too. If not, then at least it's another chance to bring on the support for our wee bit of magical wizardry time shifting solar gain via phase change in subsoil heat sunk greenhouses. The more the merrier my friend.

Oh... BTW, the most difficult greenhouse project I've had the pleasure of teaming with a structural engineer with was in high country exposed SW Idaho with 100 mph/100 lbs snow loads - ONLY woven skins met muster, nothing else had a hope of working. Even the engineer who wrote the building code for greenhouses said it was a humdinger of a design challenge. His comment "If you build it to code there, you'll be the first ones - I've never seen it done to these codes with those loads!"

Good luck Randy, you are one the edge of very great time - the 1st winter for your baby is coming up fast. We can't wait to see how your stacked plenum/culvert UACT fares. And as your know, we are all here to help out if you've knarly issue to share. We're all eyes & ears & clapping hands for you my friend. And if you show the world something of a breakthrough - all the power to you. The world could use a few habitat design breakthroughs NOW...
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mrhobbithhnet · Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject:

On another note wrt installs of covers. Here's a video. Near the end your can see one way to get the job done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3NowPq5kTA&feature=related

Basically. its drawn over from one side with lines tied to the leading edges. Capture a small smooth stone in the leading edge of the cover with rope, toss the lines over the ridge and have a crew drag it up and over. Tape over any snag points, and it will go in place just fine with a few souls teasing it along t-bars or push brooms from under the hoops. You can do both skins at a time or separately. If you have a big clear space to organize and set the material's fold, size etc, go for both layers at one time - a huge time saver.

The only tricky part is getting the crew together on a still early morning day on a moments notice. Brunch and beer solves that dilemma in a hurry. Very Happy

randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

Today I installed first 1/2 of the insulated north wall, approximately 4 ft in height, up to the start of the curve in the frame. Tomorrow the second 1/2 will be installed. The poly has been shipped. Today the Agralock poly clip materials were ordered. Bodies are being lined up to install the ploy a week from this coming Saturday.

Our first fall snowfall has melted and there is frost every morning now! Its a race against the weather.

mrhobbithhnet · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:09 am Post subject:

Great news, I hope you can get a month or two of decent gain before winter sets in.

I hope you've done Agrilock installs before. My first one was a real cock up. Looked easy enough till we had spent all of our patience with the wrong screws and plain old under powered drill motors. At least #12 self-drillers and portable 1/4" impact drivers is the only way to go. Stack and bench drill the bases first, and it'll be slick as snot on a doorknob getting those babies down fast and true...
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randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

North wall installed. This is the same insulation panels used elsewhere in the project. Two opposing panels with a space in between and concrete facing out. This provides 20R insulation.

We have also begun work on the end walls.

MrHobbit, unfortunately I am out of time for btu storage. Calculations I had done some time back indicated a slight btu gain for the month of October after that it is down hill until spring.

mrhobbithhnet · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:58 am Post subject:

Oh well, you could at least condense out un-vented gas heater exhaust till the sun shows up. Shouldn't be a problem if your burners are tuned to 100% burn, no NOx etc.

What are you planning to grow out? Anything planned for this winter?
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randy · Joined: 02 Sep 2008 Posts: 54

End walls complete. Part of the west end wall is insulated sinse it will be shaded by the headhouse.

MrHobbit: I see what you mean about the poly lock...but it is installed. Hoping the poly will go on this Friday or Saturday.